MBW’s World’s Greatest Managers series profiles the best artist managers in the global business. This time out we speak to Ian McEvily, manager of, among others, Dan Nigro, one of the most successful songwriters of the last few years. World’s Greatest Managers is supported by Centtrip, a specialist in intelligent treasury, payments and foreign exchange – created with the music industry and its needs in mind.
Ian McEvily learned an awful lot during his time as day-to-day manager for Rihanna.
The main thing he learned, however, was that he didn’t want to be the day-to-day manager for a pop star. No shade on the artist with over 250 million album sales to her name – McEvily describes being in that orbit from pre-Umbrella to post-Rated R as “like fast-forwarding through graduate school for the music industry” – it just wasn’t the life, or business model, for him.
“I wanted to focus on growing a management company so that I wasn’t necessarily beholden to one act. Marc [Jordan, founder of Rebel One, who managed Rihanna through the first few years of her career] was able to give me the means and the room to do that a few years in.”
McEvily had moved to New York from Boston in 2002, specifically to find a job in the music industry – “I’d always done promoting and street-team work throughout high school and college, so I’d always known where I wanted to be”.
Unfortunately, he recalls, “this was at the time when Napster had pretty much levelled the business and the labels were on a hiring freeze”.
After waiting it out in advertising, McEvily found his way into music via a side door in the shape of the BMG CD Club, which also put him through NYU Business School while he worked.
“During that time, I started managing a band called West Indian Girl that was signed to Astralwerks – and I quickly learned that I didn’t know what I was doing.
“Thankfully, a friend of mine introduced me to Mark Jordan [founder of Rebel One Management, now State of the Art], who had just started working with Rihanna and needed a day-to-day manager. I joined him, and we’ve been working together for the next 20 years.”
Those 20 years have seen a lot of success, for McEvily and Rebel One [now rebranded as State of the Art], but perhaps nothing as intense or rarefied as in the last couple of years.
The third senior exec at the company, Nick Bobetsky, manages the biggest (and most talked about) breakthrough artist of recent times, Chappell Roan. While McEvily himself manages Dan Nigro, the co-writer and mainly-solo producer of pretty much every track on her debut album, 2023’s The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess.
Nigro has, in fact, been a client for over a decade and enjoyed successful relationships with, amongst others, Sky Ferreira, Freya Ridings and Conan Gray in that time.
He entered a different stratosphere, however, as the main creative collaborator on Oliva Rodrigo’s Sour [2021 – he co-wrote or produced all but one track] and then with Roan.
Here, McEvily discusses building a roster, what makes a great manager, the biggest challenges in today’s industry – and the rise and rise of Dan Nigro…
When you left Team Rihanna, how did you make the transition from day-to-day with one artist to taking overall control and working with multiple artists?
I have a business background, so I was always very curious as to how management companies and entrepreneurial music businesses could be structured differently, more efficiently. That was a passion of mine from the beginning.
As we all know, sometimes music business doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. So being able to take a step back, allowing Marc to bring in clients, while I was structuring the company was really useful. It meant that when an artist came in they would be getting full service. There wasn’t just one team, there were multiple teams working on a variety of different strategies.
During that process, it also became clear that management companies are very hard to scale, which is why we started to pivot into building assets through, amongst other things, a publishing division.
What was the scale of the company back then, in terms of size of roster?
It was never too big, about six-eight clients. From Rihanna [who left to join Roc Nation in 2010], we brought in K’naan, and then Jazmine Sullivan, who’s still with us. We signed Alex Da Kid [the UK producer who had worked with Rihanna]. And we signed the writer, Scott Harris.
We were trying to bring in different types of music, but also different parts of the recording process, to build a creative ecosystem within a new company. This is all around 2013/14.
That’s around the time you met Dan Nigro: how did that come about?
Yeah, I’ve been managing Dan for 10 years now. I was looking to expand the writer-producer arm at that point and my then-assistant sent me some demos that Dan had done, which I loved.
I met with him and didn’t realize that he was the lead singer of As Tall As Lions, who I’d been a fan of in New York in the early 2000s. Y’know, we just hit it off. We had very similar ideas around music, and also on building his career.
At that time he was writing for the most part, but his production demos were so good. There was just a vibe to them that you don’t hear very often; you could really feel it.
So the idea from day one was, ‘You’re a great writer, but let’s also make sure everyone knows that you’re also an amazing producer’. And it only took about five or six years from that point to convince folks [laughs].
Apart from that over-arching strategic goal, how did you go about moving his career through the gears on a more in-the-trenches level?
Dan’s always had a clear idea of the type of artist that he wants to work with, which definitely makes things easier. From the beginning, when he was working with Sky Ferreira, it was a very specific project, one that made sense for Dan
It was always about finding those singers that really grabbed hold of him, and then whether we could get in the room as a writer or producer with them. We really focused on making sure that the artist made sense for Dan.
“When you’re a writer or producer in Los Angeles, you can fill up your calendar very quickly with lots of different sessions; that’s an approach we decided not to take.”
When you’re a writer or producer in Los Angeles, you can fill up your calendar very quickly with lots of different sessions; that’s an approach we decided not to take.
Overall, I’ve always followed his lead creatively in terms of where he wants to sit.
How would you sum up your personal relationship and dynamic?
We have a tremendous respect for one another. We’re really good friends, we’re a similar age and we both have families that we prioritize. The values that both of us hold in high regard are very similar, and that makes it very easy to work together.
What were some of the key sessions and tracks that led to Dan moving towards the very top end of the business?
Honestly, I think one of the one of the breakthrough points for us was him working on Freya Ridings’ Castles.
That was when Good Soldier gave Dan the opportunity to be the producer of a song that looked like it could be a single.
That was always the rub, right? We would get a song to the right place, where we thought it was great. And then there would be an A&R person saying we need to bring in so-and-so to help finish this.
The guys at Good Soldier didn’t do that, they gave Dan the opportunity and they trusted him. Again, it goes back to the idea of the voice, the artist that makes sense for Dan, because Freya’s amazing.
And that opened doors into the Conan Gray world, with [Mercury Records GM] Ben Adelson, who recognized that Dan’s productions were just as strong as his writing.
So Conan was the next kind of stepping stone [Nigro produced all but two and co-wrote half the tracks on Gray’s 2020 Top 5 album, KidKrow], and the even more well-known projects followed suit.
But it was really those initial steps that put him in a position where he can work in a room with an artist where it’s just the two of them and he can flex his production and songwriting skills.
You mentioned those well-known projects and collaborations, referring to Olvia Rodrigo and Chappell Roan, how did they come about? And which came first?
Olivia definitely came first as far as the creative relationship, but Dan and I had been trying to work with Chappell Roan from prior to the pandemic, when she was on Atlantic and had released that first EP. The timing and the strategy never worked out, but we had always been huge fans of hers.
With Olivia, there were a couple of folks at Interscope and Republic at the time that had sent Dan some of Olivia’s music and Dan quickly fell in love with her voice and with her point of view from a songwriting standpoint.
At that time, we were all going into pandemic-world and it was just fortuitous that the two of them were able to establish their relationship and then have that time, when the world was shut down, to create such a magnificent piece of art [Sour].
Why do you think the two of them complemented each other so well?
Good question! I think it goes back to the DNA that Dan is always looking for; Olivia hit all of those marks.
Dan’s able to bring his writing and arrangement strength, but also his production feel and tones to match the point of view the artist is trying to get across, as opposed to trying to force his production into their world.
Dan’s a great listener, and Olivia is very good at being able to vocalize how she wants songs to feel. They seem to have been able to create a language between the two of them that obviously works.
Why do you think that album hit such a cultural sweet spot?
I think it really comes down to the honesty of everything. You can’t deny how honest those songs feel. That’s why everyone relates to them.
And then how did the Chappell relationship come about?
I manage an artist named LP, who had a big song called Lost On You, which took up a lot of my time – in a good way! So I brought Nick Bobetsky over from Red Light Management to help me build LP’s business.
While we were talking, I asked him, ‘Who else do you have?’ He’s going through his roster, and he’s like, ‘Well, I just found this girl Chappell Roan…’ I was just, ‘You gotta be kidding me’
So, as soon as he came over, getting her and Dan together was a priority for us – although we can’t pretend we had any idea what would transpire. We just all knew it would be a really interesting fit creatively.
They wrote four songs that were earmarked for Atlantic, and then, as we were figuring out strategy, the pandemic hit. We ended up getting Pink Pony Club out there, but it was clear by then that the relationship with Atlantic had come and gone.
Once that business element had been established, it really allowed Dan and her the time to create this world that she was so vividly imagining. I think not being tied to any deal really helped free her mind.
Presumably they’re now working together on the new album?
Yeah, whenever there’s time in her now extremely busy schedule they’re writing and developing. It’s actually less about sitting down and saying, ‘Hey, we’re making the next album’, and more about making sure they have time to be creative.
So it would be pointless to ask when the next album is coming out?
Your guess is as good as mine [laughs]
How would you describe the genre that Dan specializes in?
Wow. I don’t know that I will be able to really pinpoint it. I think what’s great about Dan is that when he has a relationship with an artist, and when they are able to develop that relationship, the right sound ends up emanating from that project – because of that relationship, and unique to that relationship.
Can you tell us about the evolution of Dan’s label, Amusement Records?
We had always been interested in building that part of Dan’s business. I think there’s a time for those things to develop naturally, so that it doesn’t feel forced, both in terms of the artist and the additional work for someone in Dan’s position.
Obviously Conan was signed to Republic, and Olivia was signed to Interscope. But in both those instances, Dan was heavily involved in the development of the sound. That’s such a unique skill to have in our business – and probably the most valuable one.
From our point of view, it was obvious, like, OK, Dan has this ability, and the more input he has in terms of molding things, the better those things have turned out.
So when he and Chappell started working together, we decided to take an extra step into, you know, putting together some video budgets, things like that – getting Dan in the position where he’s starting to be part of a label. The idea was always to take a natural progression into this world.
And then the deal that we did with Island was a one-off, so that Dan could understand what being a label figurehead meant – and if he liked it.
As it happened, he very much enjoyed it. He has the potential to be a great label executive and we’ll continue to focus on growing that part of his business.
What’s it like as a manager when a client has a run like Dan has been having – and how does it change the nature of your role? Is it about maximizing that moment, really taking advantage of the constantly-ringing phone, or is it about saying no to lots of things?
I think it’s different for every client, but it’s usually some sort of combination of the two. I think across the board, I’m always very much making sure that anyone I’m working with remains focused.
“Just because there are opportunities coming down the pipe that weren’t there in previous years doesn’t mean that we need to take advantage of everything.”
Just because there are opportunities coming down the pipe that weren’t there in previous years doesn’t mean that we need to take advantage of everything.
It’s about understanding what the long-term goals are for a client. To that end, taking advantage of specific opportunities during the times you’re in demand is very important.
And just how much has that phone been ringing?
More than it was before, certainly. But I also think the players involved in developing a lot of these projects, also know how picky Dan is [laughs].
And you’re using picky in a good way there, right?
In a really good way, for sure. Perhaps his way of doing things with real intention would be a better way of phrasing it.
How does the rapidly expanding Dan Nigro business dovetail with not only the rest of your roster but also your wider role at State of the Art?
I had been running the Rebel One/State of the Art business for over a decade. So when I moved my family back to the East Coast, I decided to focus on the four clients that I’ve been working with for over 10 years.
All of which means Nick [Bobetsky] has moved more into my role and is overseeing expansion of the business, with Mark continuing to be the leader. My focus is Dan, LP, Mike,Delrio and Mitch McCarthy.
What do you think are the most important skills and personality traits that a manager needs?
Number one: patience – on a variety of levels. I think the best managers in our business are the ones that are patient with their artists and let them develop in a natural way. Because, fortunately or unfortunately, there’s no speeding up that process.
“we value patience, we value loyalty, and we believe that talent rises to the top. There will be ebbs and flows within that, but if you’re a true artist and are nurtured properly, I fully believe they will have THEIR moment.”
That’s been a core value that our whole company holds true. If you look at our roster, I would say three-quarters of them have been with us for 10 to 20 years – and there’s not many management companies that can say that.
So we value patience, we value loyalty, and we really believe that talent rises to the top. There will be ebbs and flows within that, but if you’re a true artist and are nurtured properly, I fully believe they will have their moment.
What are the biggest challenges in management today?
Probably maintaining focus as you see your clients succeed. I think it’s natural for a manager to take advantage of the situation in which they’re seeing success, and starting to expand their roster.
But I think there are lot of examples you can look at where that doesn’t end up working out. The reason for that is just that it’s very difficult to scale a management company. Like, what is that balance? How many clients are just enough, and at the same time how do you continue to work with new folks?
For us it’s been about mentoring younger managers within the culture that we’ve developed for the past couple of decades.
What have been the proudest moments in your career so far?
One of them has been the development and success of LP, especially internationally. They were an artist that was dropped from Warner Brothers.That was a tough time for all of us to go through.
And then to see that rise, especially how it occurred, how we were able to utilize data and follow trends, even back in 2016/17.
That maybe doesn’t seem so long ago, but not everyone was doing that back then. We were seeing spikes in, for example, Greece – and making sure we maximized that. Eventually we were breaking Lost On You throughout Europe, then the US, and then it became a hit in South America two years later. Again, that speaks to the patience and development process that we believe in.
Then, of course, seeing everything with Dan transpire, sitting at Lollapalooza watching 100,000 people singing those songs, doing those dances – that was surreal.
If you could change one thing about the music industry, what would it be?
I think if there was a stronger artists’ union it would really allow for some positive change, both on the legislative level and within the grind of our business.
There seems to be an upper class and a lower class – and the middle class has kind of been gutted. I think artists, writers and producers having a way to really stand together would be really helpful.
If musicians were able to take a play out of the sports books – the NFL, the MLB – and were able to really organize, I think that would lead to really positive change.
What advice would you give to a young manager just starting out?
Keep a very strong entrepreneurial spirit, but find a team that can mentor you. There are so many different situations that you’ll be put in as a manager, and I think it’s really important to be able to go through that alongside a team.
There are so many younger managers who get initial success and they’re like, OK, I’m gonna go start my own company. But there’s a lot to learn in the music business, and focusing on the team as opposed to yourself is always a great idea, in my experience.
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